Domestic surveillance program began soon after 9/11

Why do idiot right-wingers keep saying Bush kept us safe??? 9/11 happened on HIS WATCH!!!

This a question Hatch asked to Holder upon his confirmation: Hatch: Now, do you believe that the president has whoever is POTUS has inherent authority under Article 2 of the Constitutional to engage in warrantless foreign intell surveillance? Or, in your opinion, does FISA trump Article 2? Holder: Well, the president obviously has powers under the Constitution that cannot be infringed by the legislative branch. Hatch: That still doesnt negate the fact that the president may have inherent powers under Article 2 that even a statute cannot vary. Holder: Well, sure. Hatch: Do you agree with that statement? Holder: YES, THERE ARE CERTAIN THINGS THAT THE PRESIDENT HAS THE CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT, AUTHORITY TO DO, THAT THE LEGISLATIVE BRANCH CANNOT IMPINGE UPON.

Were dems outraged at Clintons Echelon program. Did dems accuse Clinton of trampling on their rights that are guaranteed by the constitution. Obamas DOJ filed papers in San Fran, defending the Bush warrantless program in response to a lawsuit filed by AT+T customers. The first of its kind to seek damages against govt officials under FISA, the Wiretap Act and other statutes, arising out of Bushs NSA program. Obama DOJ demanded dismissal of the entire lawsuit based on state secrets privilege bars any lawsuits against the Bush admin for illegal spying. Team Obama has now invented a brand new sovereign immunity never before advanced even by Bush admin, that under the Patriot Act, the govt is free to intercept all of your communications (calls,emails and the like) and even if its illegal - you are barred from suing the govt. So now since the warrantless wiretaps still continue, it is now called Obamas warrantless wiretapping.

The wire taps were used for all calls! We have the reports of the listeners, and the sharing of salacious conversations as proof. What a tremendous waste on useless drivel. If there was something to be learned it was lost in data overload. They were not looking for anything to do with AlQida, they were looking for political "secrets". They were in bed with Osama and his family, they talked with them freely at will, that is why he remains free. The reason we have not begun the trials is because Palosi and co. are part of the Cabal against the American citizenry. Yes the cold war has been won by the forces for the few rich elite and against the poor stupid saps with inadequate education, and inadequate healthcare, to support their pursuit of happiness. WE AMERICANS NEED TO WAKE UP AND TAKE OUR RIGHTS AND FREEDOMS BACK WHILE WE STILL REMEMBER WHAT THEY ARE.

The reason these programs aren't being closed is because they are LEGAL. It is the same as police searching your car if they recieved a report of a similar car doing a drive by shooting. They can do it without a warrent it is the same principle with the wire tapping.

ttbala, You are right the attacks took YEARS to prepare which means that it was prepared under Clinton who also expierenced the USS Cole bombing OCt 12, 2000; Several embassies bombed Aug 7, 1998; military housing facility in Saudi Arabia bombed June 25, 1996; These are the major ones with several other pipe bombs and RPG attacks at varying locations both within the United States and overseas.

What amazes me about this is that the very people who now like to claim that President Obama is violating the Constitution defend the actions of the Bush administration - illegal actions that violated the right to privacy of American citizens and came close to turning us into a totalitarian regime. The true shame is that it seems Bush/Cheney are getting away with their crimes.

> Thank you Bush for your hard work of keeping this country safe. Maybe >Democrats wants to keep terrorists safe, I do not want terrorists to have >any help from my democrats friends I'm not a Democrat. Nor an I a Republican. I want to keep our country and its citizens safe - including safe from government run amok and intruding on and passing judgments on everyone's lives under the guise of fighting terrorism.

>'harm in even one instance' The law was broken. That in and of itself constitutes 'harm'. > 'Besides, why is there an expectation that conversations held over the phone are private' Telephone conversations having an expectation of privacy has been established legally for a very, very long time.

How can Republicans try and fearmonger about Obama being Big Government when Bush brought Big Brother right into everyone's home?

What Bush did is nothing compared to what Obama is doing to our freedoms and constitution. Bush tried to protect us Obama is taking our freedoms away.

Pelosi knew about it ,and the congress approved so whats the Beef? Un-less your a criminal or a terrorist supported.

@ Blake, who mentioned "double edged sword" Doesn't even need to be a catch-22 involved. They will complain no matter what. We're talking about people who have ranted the following two things back-to-back: "He's not the 'Messiah' and can't magically fix these huge problems with a snap of his fingers!!!" "It's been 3, 4, 5, 6, etc., months and we're still in a recession...what a failiure!!!" He could cure cancer and they'd accuse him of holding out on AIDS.

Harold Ramos July 10th, 2009 4:42 pm ET People need to remember that the first responsibility of government is to protect it's citizens. Everything else is secondary. Perhaps you should read the oath that every President takes when sworn into office.

Bush and Cheney need to be on trial for all sorts of things. I won't rest easy until both of those criminals are behind bars. Period.

You all are trying to tie this too one idiot (Bush) while glossing over the fact that a large number of both Rep and Dem members of congressional intelligence committees knew about this program and many others, yet did nothing about it. Including that blow hard Pelosi. And then you need to ask yourself if the programs were so bad, why has Obama not stopped them? Think about that before you start party bashing.

I can't wait for Nancy to claim she can't recall all 17 briefings.

The bombing of the WTC and the USS Cole was a direct response and retaliatory effot to the attempted bombing of Bin Laden during Clinton's terms in office. at their meeting and in the letter of former vs. new, Clinton told Bush that the first thing he needs to do is get Bin Laden, what did Bush do? Go to Crawford to clear brush......if you buy a house and the old owner tells new owner that the back gate is loose and the rotwieller next door comes in and is vicous and dangerous, and you do nothing, then your child gets mauled by that same dog......whose fault is it? Essayons!

Like everything else in the Bush adminstration, this was handled in a completely partisan and incompetent fashion. This is a prime example of the rot that had set into the nation affairs at the end of the Bush era and an example of the stain and stench the american people and Mr Obama's team have work at cleaning up for next few years. God bless America.

Come on people, this isn't a partisan issue. Either you believe 'security' is more important then personal privacy or you don't. I would have to imagine though that the majority of American's think the governement overreached. The Scary part is we don't even know half of what they have been doing over the years. We need to demand to know the who, how and what of these programs so we can determine what is illegal, against our values or ok. The biggest failure to come out of this was congress not allowing us to sue the crap out of the telecommuncation companies that complied with the presidential order.

Yes, there was surveillance after 9/11. WE didnt know about it. SO WHAT??. We didnt have another attack by brainless terrorists. Doesn't it enough? You gotta be kidding when you blame bush and you must be out off your mind. You will thank bush, if you sit in india or israel and get your bottom blown every now and then by terrorist, then you will embrace and thank bush.

Who cares! So the gov't listened in looking for terrorists. The amount of info on citizens available in public records databases, available to all for a few bucks on the internet, is far more dangerous. We need to get with the program and realize that the enemies of this nation will continue their efforts. You might read the 911 Report. The Feds failed to search zacarias moussaoui's laptop because they didn't think they had probable cause for a search warrant. The only thing that would have been "lost" would have been the "ability" to prosecute in a court, and put him in a prison where he would have a captive audience of malcontents to "preach to" (most of whom would re enter society someday). The info on that laptop would have provided enough info on the 911 plans to give us a chance to stop it before it happened. As long as any info gleaned is used exclusively for anti-terror efforts, it is justified. Stop bellyaching about it already.

...and the list continues even after his presidency. Are there any laws Bush and his cronies abided by other than the ones they made up so they could break the others? Seriously!

It's a violation of the fourth amendment. They violated the Constitution and our civil rights. Bush and company and any who agreed to it (republican or democrat) should be arrested and tried to the fullest extent of the law.

It's time to issue an arrest warrant for George Bush.

Treason can be defined as CITIZENS attacking our country and Constitution. What does it take to get investigation and presecution for these crimes? Republican or Democrat members of any branch of government should be screaming for some accountabilty. Bush did little to keep America safe. Our borders remained porous, our ports basically without security and Bush just decided to invade Iraq with no intelligence that mattered. Oh, he was sooooo heroic and now Dick Cheney may have been running assasination squads? At least let us investigate openly and, if necessary, prosecute vigoriously.

@GOPBslapper: Read your history. Let's not forget that the Terrorist Surveillance Program was not intended to be used against average Americans. TSP was using the FISA act (Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act) as its basis which basically said that one of the parties being "wiretapped" had to have a foreign origin. In many instances, the CIA didn't have time to get approval from a court, since the conversation they were about to listen to was about to take place and our intelligence analysts didn't have all of the information to fill out a request and then turn it in to a court for a judge's approval.

Hate, intolerance, fear, war, torture, NSA warrantless searches.... Why is it that I get this knot in my stomach whenever neocons try to justify the Bush administration? Instead of "All we have to fear is fear itself" the Republican motto is "All we have is fear."

Kevin B - so right. I have two sons in USMC that I am very proud of. My biggest concern is having another punk pair like Bush/Cheney who so little regard of our military that they commit such a blatant screw up (mistake) as the invasion and occupation of Iraq. Shame on them all and those who still blindly refuse the truth. And as you can see in these posts - the Repugs/Bush/Cheney still to this day terorize our population with claims of perpetual fear and "what if?" Cowards all of you!

"I'll complain that if it wasn't done, then my liberty and freedom to pursue hapiness was not upheld, and that my feedom and the collective freedom of all others outweights and freedom of privacy." Spoken like a true coward. Who is afraid of the boogy man? Tim "The coward" and most rethuglicans!

In all honesty i don't care in the government knows what im doing. Heres an idea what if these programs were voluntary. You as an individual could say yes or no to the government surveillance the same way you could request to be on the national and state on call lists. just thinking out loud

GOPBslapper July 10th, 2009 5:01 pm ET Steve, how about breaking our 4th Amendment rights for starters. Amendment 4 – Search and Seizure. Ratified 12/15/1791. The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The key is UNREASONABLE! Is it UNREASONABLE that the current adminstration is continuing this policy or Is it only UNREASONABLE when a republician president do it?

Actually, what seems to have escaped most people is that through it all (meaning the 8 blundering years of Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld) the FBI has maintained its core principles and done a pretty good job, and thats why Robert Mueller has been kept on by Obama as FBI Director. The problems at DoJ were caused by the political animals like Ashcroft, Gonzales and Yoo.

@ Respect- Do you remember that 9/11 happened within a year after he was elected? An operation like that takes a long time, years to plan and execute. It doesn't just happen over night or a few months. By your statement and thought process Bill Clinton was responsible for the Bombing in the World Trade center on 2/23/1996. That was also another act of terrorism that was conducted by Al Queda whose head was Osama Bin Laden. Bush had to respond to an attack and take decisive measures that Bill did not have the guts to do because he didn't feel like it was important enough to go after people who attacked us on our soil! That's Democrats for you, never having the backbone to go into a fight, at least not politicians. The President, the intelligence communities around the world, and our servicemen responded and did their job. You should be thankful that they were willing to go out and defend our country.

Maybe I'm crazy but does anyone believe that our elected officials should obey The Constitution of the United States of America? It's ironic that we want to implement our form of government on nations that supposedly violate human rights...which is EXACTLY what the Bush administration did! This will be amusing many years from now.

@Reality, you unfortunately have fallen into the right-wing propaganda trap that tries to equate the efforts of Obama to save our nation by investing government interest on a national scale with the efforts of the Bush administration to destroy our personal freedoms on an individual scale. It is ironic that Bush gleefully trampled on what used to be the sacred republican ground of individual constitutional rights. It is a specious comparison whose only purpose is right wing agitprop. I really don't understand so-called republicans that defend that action; they must be RINOs that went to Christian bible schools and never read 1984 or Animal Farm. If they had, the obvious growth of the Bush police state where "some are more equal than others" would have scared the bejesus out of them like it did a lot of us.

First, recognize that you don't know anything about the Constitution. You don't have the slightest appreciation for its legal complexities. Remind yourself that you've not even read the text, not to mention the interpreting cases. Second, refrain from writing a comment that references the Constitution. Thanks.

If Bush and his cronies actually committed a crime we would not be discussing when they will be charged, the talk would be how long of a trial. If the warrantless search did not target a U.S. citizen then no warrant would be needed. Terrorists in this country to attack us do not have the full protection of criminal law. The rights afforded to them are under Title 50 USC.

@Respect If you want to blame someone, blame Clinton. He let Bin Laden and company gain strength and ignored there first bombing of the world trade center, along with the bombing of the USS Cole. You, Not Bush, are sitting like an idiot blaming Republicans for the attack. Bush inherited that mess, and all your denying won't change that fact.

@ lieNoMore - Obama's not breaking the law? What planet are you from? He fired an IG, he accepted bundled funds from foreign sources...he's still not produced a vaulted copy of his birth certificate..(yeah, it's nice to have deeply rooted friends in the pentagon...that keep me informed...) So, before you think that Obama's the schizzle...you need to step back and perhaps study and read the law....seems like you've been visiting too many obama buttkissing websites...

The terroists wanted to adversely change our society and destroy as much of our freedoms as they could on September 11, 2001. Under the Bush/Cneney regime they have succeded beyond their highest hopes. The Bush Cheney era was a blight of ignorrance and fear used to maipulate our country into a bunch of crazed whimps afraid of their shadow. Repugs are the party of fear.

Bush and company manipulated many cowardly americans to give up thier many freedoms for "security" and cower in fear from a bunch religious zealots. I did not serve twenty one years in the USN so some chicken hawk politcian can come along and give the terrorist exactly what wanted by giving up our freedoms and changing americans into cowering, mindless, fearful cowards. We fight for freedom not against it. It is generally those that never served thier country or anything other than themselves, being the ones to give up freedom so easily.

@David July 10th, 2009 4:43 pm ET I would rather have a 9-11 yearly than to give up a single freedom. Otherwise the Terrorist have won. It is not their goal to kill Americans. It is their goal to change our way of life. They are succeeding. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ How nice of you to volunteer YOUR home! Do you realize the flat out ignorance of your words? You lose a loved one or friend on 9-11? Before making ignorant statements about an event most likely that cost you NOTHING, why don't you ask someone who did lose someone and find out if he or she would like to go through that again! Your post is ridiculous, dangerous, and ignorant!

To the Tim and Miguel bashers- they have their opinions, and they are welcome to them because this is still America, after all, in spite of what Bush.Cheney did to it. Miguels hyperbole indeed earns criticism, and once again Mississippi Mike does not fail to rise to the bait. But at least Tim made a stab at a rational argument as opposed to just name calling and idiotic rhetorical chest beating. Give him credit. But I have to agree totally with Kelby in Houston, TX. "Police State" is exactly the term I equate with the direction of Bush administration. I see these right wing militia and Christian groupies threatening and outright killing people, and the unabashed hate mongering by republicans against immigrants, minorities, and anyone they term "librul" and it is truly scary. They love to accuse democrats of insulting Bush and having a double standard with Obama. Well, yeah, we felt perfectly justified calling Bush things like "stupid" and "idiot". We didn't call him a socialist, communist, or collectivist, very hard epithets for Americans, or organize tea tantrums and advocate stocking up on guns and ammo to "enforce our rights", or secession. Big, big difference, guys.

The wiretaps were not put used for everyone. It was used for people that were already suspected or people that had access to classified information or security clearances. This was not used for the AVERAGE JOE! The wire taps were used to protect the country. One of the things that president obama said during his campaign run was that he would make everything public about what had transpired during the Bush administeration. He hasn't done that. Would you people like to know why? i'll answer it for you. The things that President Bush did during his presidency are highly classified, productive, and letting everyone in the world know what we're doing to protect ourselves would cause even more problems because than enemies of the state would know what to look for. Also, Obama would've lost face if he said that he was wrong in accusing Bush of war crimes and he could not admit that he was wrong. Once he became President-elect, he wa briefed by the Joint Chief of Staff, Pentagon, CIA, FBI, NSA, and security agencies about what was going on and he than had a press conference where he decided not to comment on any questions dealing with the war, terrorism, or programs that were in use against terrorist that he so loudly went against in his campaigh run, meaning he didn't have the backbone to admit he was wrong. Look at what President obam is doing now, he's trying to control the media worse than what Nixon did by planting questions, even Bush didn't do that. He's been on an apology tour to evrywhere in the world but not defending his own country that he was elected to lead. Thats a great quality to have in a leader and President. He wouldn't have the backbone to face the difficult decisions that Bush did or stand up for his own country.

Hey libs...news flash...your beloved Clinton let Osama and his cronies get away...I know, I was deeply involved in the situation....we had the lock on....needed the go ahead...it didn't happen....Clinton's fault...a liberal democrat... yeah, slick Willy had him in the crosshairs...and opted for Monica and a cigar. So, Bush tried to close in on him....and 911 happened; Thank Bill Clinton. It happened while Bush was president. But, there wasn't a way to prevent it; unless, of course you count Clinton's failure. So, you ignorant liberal fools spouting off like you know something? You don't know squat, other than snappy phrases like "Hope, Change, Transparency, Make Work Pay..." and all the other crap you've been brained washed with.....Bush kept us safe; and you'll see that more and more as our adversaries in Iran, North Korea and other hotspots in the world make more aggressive moves. Liberals just can't see behind the end of their noses...keep believing Obama's propaganda.. oh yeah, CNN stop censoring me!

so if it took years and years to plan 911 why didn't Clinton stop it? Or was he asleep too? Stop blaming Bush, support Obama's continuation a program that's obviously working to thwart terrorism and get on with your lives. No prosection of the Bush administration is going to happen because there is zero evidence that anyone did anything illegal. Period.

That's because it was set up and ready to go for this instance. They've wanted to trash the Constitution for years.

@Reality 1. Those words used to describe the economy have been used by everyone on both sides to achieve their ends since late 2008. They are not Obama's nor the democrats sole stewardship. But hey, talking about the economy, without sugar coating it that "everything will be ok," still pales in comparison to recent fear-mongering by you people. From your statements about scary government control to Cheney saying there will be another terror attack just screams class. 2. "Gov't Motors," as you so succinctly put it, comes as a double edged sword. They could either be "bailed out,' as they were in 1980 or in 2008 (when Bush signed the automaker bailout with no strings attached), and you people can claim "Government Motors, Socialism, blah, blah," or They could fail and take 2.5 million jobs with it. And you people can claim that Obama isn't doing anything to save jobs. 3. The government health OPTION isn't replacing anyone's private health insurance. The people who have insurance already (through their jobs or by their own purchase) will not be affected or forced to take the government option. It's for those specifically who do NOT have or canNOT get health insurance. But fear mongering is easier than actually doing research isn't it?

@john u July 10th, 2009 4:10 pm ET The Bush crime family at work….now that's so christian conservative ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Your name calling isn't christian either. BTW, exactly what crimes? Have you been witholding evidence? People like you have chanted that cry so long but where is the evidence or is it just liberal hate? I'm betting the latter. Cancel the world court arguement as they have NO legal authority here!